Distortion Festival 2016, Copenhagen, Denmark. We had fun on the streets of Nørrebro, Vesterbro and on the party island of Refshaleøen. Did you?
Here are some of the international contingent that wandered the streets for four catharctic days of merrymaking, plus a video that sums up the kind of party we had in my borough, Vesterbro.
Mischa, Greece: ”Distortion is pure catharsis
Julianne, U.S.A: ”Distortion speaks for itself – it is one of the best non-corporate festivals in the world.”
Borja, Spain: “Distortion represents Copenhagen: It is incredibly open minded”
Edu, Spain: ”The atmosphere here is contagious.”
Ruben, Portugal: ”Look around you man! What’s not to like?”
David, Sweden: ”Distortion is a great place to meet people!”
Paulo, Portugal: ”This is my 4th year now – I love electronic music and Distortion has a great line up.”
Irene, Spain: “Distortion makes me dance and scream!”
Malte, Germany: ”There’s a great sense of togetherness here.”
Edoardo, Italy: ”This is the best party in the world.”
Leire, Spain: ”There is nowhere in the world like this place!”
Aleksandra, Poland: ”I just love it here!”
Lil, Germany: “This is the best electronic music festival in Denmark”
Ramon, Spain: “I’m taking notes so I can bring Distortion to Spain.”
Siya, Germany: ” Why am I here? The question is why not?”
In a year in which both Lukas Graham and Mø have made headlines abroad with top ten hits that have taken Danish music to an international audience, it comes as no surprise that both of the aforementioned artists were richly rewarded at the annual Carl Prize, held at Carlsberg’s iconic ”Jacobsen” brewery. Whilst few Danish musicians have broken the threshold of international stardom, there are encouraging signs that this may be about to change.
Christiania-born and bred Lukas Graham raked in the accolade for the composition of the year within the category of pop for the songs on his eponymous album. The chart topper ’7 years,’ on the same album, also won the prize for the song of the year. For her part, Mø went home with an unsurprising reward for the most streamed song of the year, ’Lean on’ which was made in collaboration with American producer, Major Lazer and has over 1.3 billion views on YouTube. The Sony signed starlet also pocketed the honour of International success of the year, due in no small part, no doubt, to the overpowering global reach of ‘Lean on.’
Now in its fourth year, The Carl Prize aims to reward the efforts of songwriters and composers and features 12 different prizes, ranging from the classical composer of the year to the upcoming talent of the year. Hosted by the hirsute children’s entertainment figure, Mikkel Lomborg and singer Pernille Rosendahl, the awards ceremony drew over 200 participants to the rustic confines of the Jacobsen brewery on Monday.
A full list of all winners follows below:
Cash prizes of 30´000 Kroner for the talent of the year: Rock band, The Kikos and classical composer, Per Nørgård (who gave the award to Cellist Jakob Kullberg)
The honour award: Per Nørgård (who received a standing ovation for his efforts within classical music composition over the years)
Classic Composer of the year: Grand Ensemble: Sunleif Rasmussen for ”Symphony Number 2, The Earth Anew.”
Classical Composer of the year: Small Ensemble: Karsten Fundal & Efterklang for the opera ”Leaves – The Colour of Falling.”
Composer of the year – film score: Jonas Struck for his score to the film ”Idealisten” (The Idealist.)
Composer of the year: Children’s music: Stine Michel for the songs in the theatre play ”The Light and The Spider of Luck.”
Composer of the year – Roots: Rune Thorsteinsson for the songs on the album ”Global Compositions.”
Composer of the year – Jazz: Jakob Bro for the works on the album ”Gefion.”
Composer of the year – Pop: Lukas Forchhammer, Stefan Forrest, Morten Ristorp, Morten Pilegaard (Lukas Graham) for the songs on the album ”Lukas Graham (Blue album.)
Composer of the year – Rock: Jonas Schmidt, Robert Jensen Buhl, Søren Jensen Buhl, Peter Bøgvad Hansen (Blaue Blume) for the songs on the album ”Syzygy.”
Most played song of the year (Airplay + Streaming)
Karen Marie Ørsted (Mø) for “Lean On” which has over 1.3 Billion views on YouTube.
Talent of the year (Including a check of 30´000 Kroner):
The Kikos
Songwriter of the year:
Marie Key for the texts to the songs on the albums Do You Think We Should Dance?
International success of the year:
Karen Marie Ørsted (Mø)
Song of the Year:
”7 Years” Morten Pilegaard, David James Labrel, Christopher Stephen Brown, Lukas Forchhammer, Stefan Forrest and Morten Ristorp Jensen.
Original article co-written with Christopher Manion for The Local Denmark, available here
Denmark may not be widely accepted as the musical centre of the world, but there is a banquet of exquiste and groundbreaking Danish music awaiting your ears if you listen just a little harder.
Lukas Graham’s steady climb up the international music charts (‘7 Years’ as at number two on the Billboard Hot 100 for the second week running) may be putting Denmark on the global music map but the country is still arguably not known as a hotbed of fantastic musical acts.
Asked about Danish music, most people outside of the country might only be able to offer up ‘Barbie Girl’ or one-fourth of Metallica as examples, but there is in fact an exceptional feast of incredible Danish sounds that has seemingly evaded many people’s musical radar.
Here, in no particular order, is a little sample of some fantastic talent coming out of the crooks and crannies of Denmark.
1. Iceage
The Copenhagen band, formed in 2008, has captured that energetic youthful abandon with their unique punk-rock/noise-rock/post-hard-core sound. Iceage’s first album ‘New Brigade’, released in 2011, was a ragged hack and slash punk album that encapsulated that adolescent ‘screw it’ attitude. But, like many seminal 90s post-punk/shoe-gaze bands like Sonic Youth and Pavement, Iceage honed in on a unique well-constructed sound on their 2014 album ‘Plowing into a Field of Love’. If Iceage’s albums leave you lusting after more of singer Elias Bender Rønnenfelt’s whisky and Marlboro infused vocals, check out his side project ‘Marching Church‘. Fans of Nirvana, Joy Division and Sonic Youth will certainly be in for a Danish treat with this Copenhagen band.
2. Under Byen
One of the things Denmark is widely known for are the ‘Scandinavian Noir’ crime dramas such as ‘Broen’ (The Bridge) and ‘Forbrydelsen’ (The Killing). The dark, melancholic undercurrents that have become so synonymous with Danish drama are gloriously exuded by the Aarhus-band Under Byen (Below the City). Aarhus locals Katrine Stochholm and Henriette Sennenvaldt formed the experimental post-rock band back in 1995 and by 2003 former senior editor of Rolling Stone David Fricke had called them the best band in the world. Though the statement is contestable, Under Byen certainly have a unique atmospheric, sleek and intelligent sound that encapsulates those long Scandinavian winters succinctly.
3) Manus Nigra
The trio from Aarhus effortlessly blend a variety of musical genres to create a multi-layered soundscape. The band released their first self-titled album in 2015 and the hip-hop/trip hop/soul trio have slowly been making waves in the Danish music scene. Manus Nigra’s unique sound comes from the combination of lead vocalist Fönix’s classical training, melded seamlessly with freestyle veteran Ham Den Lange and producer DJ Swab bringing plethora of knowledge from more than 15 years’ experience in the music industry.
4. Felix De Luca
Depending on who you ask, Felix Da Luca is one of the most on-form rappers in Denmark at the moment. De Luca raps in English with a style that would be at home on the mammoth American hip-hop market. His latest release ‘Valentine’ encapsulates all the elements of Felix De Luca, with its spooky, teasing groove and rapid-fire lyrics.
5. Myrkur
Myrkur (Icelandic for darkness) is an atmospheric black metal project that sounds like a chariot ride to hell on a carriage drawn by swans. A love-her-or-loathe-her polarizing figure within the metal scene, Myrkur is the handiwork of Amalie Bruun (known for her modelling work in productions like Martin Scorsese’s Bleu De Chanel ad), Myrkur is dark, ethereal and compelling all at once.
6. Communions
Combining the fast paced energy of 70s punk with modern indie to create a sound that will resonate with fans of the post punk revival, Communions; first studio release ‘Cobblestones’ came out in 2014 and began the ball rolling for the Danish band who are now gaining recognition from the likes of music media giants Pitchfork and NME. The momentum has yet to subside as their new EP ‘Out Of My World’, released June 2015, received universal praise for the merging of indie-pop sensibilities with a sprinkling of punk rawness. Communions is most certainly a band to keep an eye and an ear on so you can be that person at a dinner party saying “I heard them before they were famous”, you little hipster.
7. Piss Vortex
With a name like that what is not to love about this Copenhagen grindcore band?! The name may create a mental image of a bottomless abyss of urine, but the four-piece have incorporated furious sounds with a subtle undercurrent of jazz composition to create a remarkably unique sound. Admittedly Piss Vortex’s visceral and aggressive sound may not be every single person’s cup of chai, but they were able to grab the attention of influential metal site Metal Sucks after releasing just two songs. If you are partial to fast-paced and aggressive music, don’t flush these guys away without a listen.
8. Suspekt
This hip-hop trio from Albertslund, just west of Copenhagen, have been making waves in the Danish music scene since their beginnings in 1999, culminating with a festival-closing performance on Roskilde’s Orange stage last summer. Suspekt’s explicit raps have sometimes earned them the ‘horrorcore’ label and their Danish-language rhymes aren’t your mainstream ‘hey mum you’ll love this song’ kind of music, but the group puts a unique take on a somewhat tired genre.
9. LSD on CIA
The humoursly-named LSA on CIA provide hedonistic thrash rock that is quickly gaining widespread European popularity. Their sophomore album, ‘Celestial Bodies’ has only just hit the shelves and is a work to behold. Watch out for the melodic mind-blowing efforts of Piotr Fronek, Troels Dankert and Mikkel Konyhe.
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10. Mont Oliver
A rarity amongst rarities, Mont Oliver’s music has shrewdly dodged appearing on Spotify so you’ll have to comb the net a bit more profoundly if you fancy a quick listen. The trio has a sound that borrows bits and pieces from pop, hip-hop, soul and indie and they’ve quickly built a name for themselves in Denmark and piqued interest from abroad.
This list of the best Denmark has to offer musically was compiled by Christopher Manion and Allan Mutuku-Kortbæk.
In 2015 I was fortunate to live amongst the Maasai of Tanzania as part of a documentary film project and a fundraising initiative organised by myself and my good friend, Lars Ulrik Nielsen. Whilst in Tanzania, we also worked with Albinos at the risk of persecution and discrimination. Here are some of the pictures of our experience. Learn more about our work:
Original article written for The Danish Architechture Centre (Arcspace), available here
Once a greasy, dusty train shed that belonged to Denmark’s national rail company, DSB, GAME Streetmekka Esbjerg represents the matrimony of raw, edgy street culture with disused architecture. Street culture, as the name suggests, tends to rely on the narrative and aesthetics of urban landscapes. Disused, semi-derelict architecture, such as an abandoned train shed, is an ideal environment within which street culture can flourish.
A partnership between Esbjerg Kommune, Realdania, TrygFonden, Nordea-fonden and GAME Denmark, the building is the first of three such-like facilities that planned for construction in various towns around Denmark. GAME Streetmekka Esbjerg, located on the west coast of Denmark, opened its doors at the start of January 2016, following many months of construction and planning.
Street Basketball and Street Football courts. Streetmekka Esbjerg, Effekt Architects @ Game Denmark
Focus on The Youth
GAME Denmark is an NGO that has focused on giving children of all backgrounds access to sport through activities such as street football, parkour, and street basketball. “We Love Asphalt” is the maxim that the organization operates by – using tough, asphalted urban terrains as a backdrop for creating equal access to sports for all.
The industrial confines of the former train sheds form the backdrop for an architectural narrative that does away with elaborate structures and creates democratized spaces that can be occupied by youth culture. In this manner, the existing aesthetic with its rough, unbridled qualities are given a new lease of life under an architectural narrative that is conducive to playfulness and flexibility.
Skate bowls render. Streetmekka Esbjerg, Effekt Architects @ Game Denmark
Skate bowls. Streetmekka Esbjerg, Effekt Architects @ Game Denmark
A Space to Hang Out
EFFEKT Architects, the designers behind GAME Streetmekka Esbjerg focused on creating plenty of strategically placed hang-out options within a brief that “keeps the existing building as a rough, industrial shell with great connectivity between the exterior and interior.” For their part, GAME Denmark describes the venture as the perfect place to meet and play street sports on asphalt.
The facility opens up towards the street and lowers the threshold to sports with its big gates and low entrance fees […]After the first week of usage we’ve had more than 2,000 young people through the doors”/Simon Prahm, GAME director.
Access to sport for the youth. Streetmekka Esbjerg, Effekt Architects @ Game Denmark
At a time of major criticism towards sporting venues built specifically for events such as the 2014 World Cup in Brazil, initiatives such as the GAME Streetmekka project are a prominent reminder of the fact that it is possible to re-use and indeed re-invent existing urban spaces. Such spaces have the potential to transform ragged confines in a state of disrepair to pulsating areas that are accessible to a broad economic demographic, who interact with them in a manner that creates a vibrant, active culture. In such a way, the aesthetic appeal of the raw urban space is preserved and reinterpreted through the expression of street sports. In the coming years, GAME hopes to establish similar street sports facilities in other countries around the globe with the goal of helping more children and youth through sport.
Original article written for The Local Denmark, available here
Christmas dominates the proceedings in December, but the month still features several promising shows, particularly within the drum ‘n’ bass and heavy metal genres
If stadium-sized gigs are your thing, December is definitely not the month for you. More intimate, less commercial gigs are a bit of a given in a month in which shopping and julefrokoster eat up our time, and amongst these, several hold great potential as events to be remembered.
The Local has gone digging amongst the scraps and found the best of the lot.
Children of Bodom Amager Bio, December 1st at 8pm
What was originally supposed to be a double bill with Lamb of God at Vega has been downsized after the American band cancelled its tour in the aftermath of the Paris attacks. Finland’s Children of Bodom are soldiering on and will bring their seemingly gruesome and even barbaric thunderous approach to metal to rip whatever rafters bind Amager Bio’s roof to its hinges. ‘I Worship Chaos’ is the title of their ninth studio album, which was released earlier this year, adding to a catalogue of chaos-causing music over the years.
Doe Parro Ideal Bar, December 2nd at 8pm
If you hear Doe Parro’s name mentioned in the same breath as Bon Iver or The Tallest Man on Earth, you may quite rightly wonder why. LA-based Parro is not a rock musician by any stretch of the imagination but her producers have had great success with the previously mentioned artists – a testament to her eclecticism, which spans the genres of R&B, soul and even the odd touch of dubstep.
Kadavar Rust, December 2nd at 8pm
Kadavar are a watered-down take on Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin, featuring similar trippy, heavily laden rock influences. Armed with a new album, ‘Berlin’, expect burly, broad-shouldered show from these German heavyweights.
Clutch Store Vega, December 4th at 7pm
Clutch epitomise all that is good and great about the American hard-rock tradition. Touring in support of their 2015 album ‘Psychic Warfare’, the Maryland-based band has been a mainstay for well over 20 years. With the band seasoned veterans in what Consequence of Sound dubbed “belligerent boogie rock”, Clutch will be the soundtrack for a Friday night party not to be missed.
Flavour, Dj Graded & Luc Rocc Rust, December 5th at 11pm
Rust’s new nightclub fixture ‘Flavour’ kicks off its December programme with a visit from two of hip-hop’s veritable local representatives. Dj Grdaded, a four-time Danish DMC champion and two-time Nordic champ, is a permanent establishment within Copenhagen’s hip-hop scene. Luc Rocc is slightly less well-known but holds an impressive portfolio as one of the city’s foremost disc jockeys.
Area 55 Store Vega, December 5th at 11:30 pm
Area 55 is a trance collective that has hosted some of the city’s most renowned underground trance events, many of which have taken place in venues such as KPH Volume and Halvandet. The setting this time round is a well-known music venue, cementing the rise of electronic music into the commercial narrative locally.
Thundercat Store Vega, December 7th at 8pm
Although the name sounds like it belongs to a heavy metal band, Thundercat is one of the standouts in the R&B world. Los-Angeles based Stephen “Thundercat” Bruner has worked with the likes of Erykah Badu, Kendrick Lamar, Suicidal Tendencies and his co-producer and partner in crime, Flying Lotus. This is a man whose rhythmic qualities are peerless, so prepare for some great entertainment.
OHOI! Presents Christmas Bass Stengade, December 12th at 10pm
Bass legends, The OHOI! drum ‘n’ bass collective are back with a mammoth lineup for their annual Christmas ball. Particularly impressive on a list of names that showcases some of the best underground talent in the city is Rasmus Kjærbo, an experienced producer who lives and breathes music. Prepare for a bass invasion.
Dubioza Kolektiv Loppen, December 18th at 9pm
What better way to prepare for the festive season than with a dose of Bosnian Balkan Beat? High-octane, adrenaline-pumping action is on the menu for the evening, held at Christiania’s Loppen, a befitting location for the occasion.
Ulige Numre, Extra Concert Store Vega, December 28th at 8pm
The voice of the new generation of Danish rock, Ulige Numre (Odd Numbers) will be performing at a sold-out show at Vega at the start of December. For those unable to catch a piece of the action, the band will be back at Vega on the cusp on the new year to perform a show that should be rich in memories and merry-making.
Original article published in The Local Denmark, available here.
The 2015 edition of the Copenhagen International Documentary Film Festival came to its formal conclusion on Sunday and The Local’s writers have made their picks for the best films of the bunch.
As the third largest documentary film festival in the world, the Copenhagen International Documentary Film Festival (better known as CPH:DOX) had a jam-packed programme that spanned ten days.
The Local’s Charles Ferro and Allan Mutuku-Kortbæk took in a wide range of films in different cinemas across the city and we asked them both to select their three favourites films. Here are their picks, in no particular order.
Human
Director: Yann Arthus-Bertrand
Filmed over three years across 60 countries, the mammoth three-hour chef-d’œuvre features close-up interviews with over 2,000 men and women of all walks of life and ethnicities. Running parallel to these compelling interviews, ‘Human’ is also a study of the earth from above, shot with impeccable aerial photography that turns landscapes into dreamy, fantasy-like universes and leaves viewers in a state of awe.
Echoing films such as ‘Baraka’ and ‘Samsara’, this is a film of peerless cinematic quality. The colour grading, sound and technical structure are inch-perfect and Armand Amar’s music score adds a surreal dimension to an already brilliant film. Poverty, war, homophobia, war and immigration are at the core of a film that leaves you with the epic feeling of belonging to something that is bigger, brighter and bolder than oneself: our beautiful planet.
Uncertain
Directors: Ewan McNicol and Anna Sandilands
The town of Uncertain, Texas – population 94 – is where people go when they want to disappear. Located in once idyllic bayou country just across the Louisiana border, the town’s financial base is a lake rapidly losing a battle to an invasive plant dumped into it from a home aquarium.
The directors examine the lives of three men with checkered pasts and uncertain futures. We get a look into the lives of Zach, 21 and a diabetic alcoholic whose life will likely become a write off; Henry, a 74-year-old fishing guide who served a term for killing a man and who is in love with a much younger woman who exploits him; and Wayne, a reformed drug abuser-ex-convict obsessed with hunting down a huge wild boar he has named Mr. Ed.
Along with the beauty of the bayous, despite almost hopeless pollution, the beauty of the film lies in the poignant look at what keeps the trio on the tracks: booze, love and the hunt (which drew some dubious snickers from a few viewers who failed to see the point).
‘Uncertain’ relates the human comedy/tragedy without a trace of pathos, and despite a grim outlook for the town, you walk away with the glimmer of hope in your eye.
The Dream of Europe
Directors: Liv Berit Helland Gilberg, Bodil Voldmo Sachse and Jens Blom
Not one for the faint of heart, ‘The Dream of Europe’ is an accurate a depiction as any of what is going on in our world right now. The film follows the work of Frontex, the EU organisation that co-ordinates European border management which, needless to say, has its hands full at the moment.
Shot in locations at the heart of the immigration debate, this film contains disturbing, real-life imagery of the sorts of conflicts that result from border policies on the one hand and the rights of desolate, desperate asylum seekers on the other.
All of the above is made all the more relevant given that the quality of the footage is sometimes not the best as some of it is shot by amateurs who’ve gone to areas where few others dare to venture. ‘The Dream Of Europe’ is a well-researched, well-documented work that digs beneath the surface and presents its findings in an uncanny, stripped-bare fashion.
Salam Neighbor
Directors: Zach Ingrasci and Chris Temple
‘Salam Neighbor’ was filmed at a refugee camp in Jordan, just a few kilometres from the border to Syria, well over a year before tens of thousands of Syrian refugees began their migration toward Europe. The documentary’s 2015 release date makes it all the more relevant.
The directors gave themselves a fairly simple task: move into a camp with 80,000 people and depict what has now become something of a conceptual term, refugees, as real people. This they achieved, capturing the smiles and the heartaches, and hearts left in ruins like many of the people’s homes.
For this viewer, the genius of the film lies in the editing. The film crew was the first to receive United Nations permission to live in a refugee camp and the start of the narrative seems to dwell on their getting ready for a big adventure. It might be unfair to say they were like a bunch of eager young people preparing for a camping trip, but … the early prep scenes set the stage for things take a gut-wrenching 180-degree turn. Kudos to the editor for leaving them in.
Lost and Beautiful (Bella e Perduta)
Director: Pietro Marcello
Pietro Marcello merges the storytelling cinematic genre with documentary style to create a compelling fable about the existence of a man, a castle and a buffalo. The three stories intertwine in what might be called – as the film festival takes place in Denmark – a merging of Kierkegaard with Hans Christian Andersen.
The film’s narrator is a male buffalo named Sarchiapone. Doomed to a short life, Sarchiapone gets adopted by the volunteer caretaker of the castle equally doomed due to public neglect. Upon the caretaker’s death, a Tomasso, a masked character of Italian legend, appears to lead the buffalo on a trip across southern Italy to salvation.
The journey takes the viewer across southern Italy while delving into regional myth. The rural setting and peasants who live there play roles in a blend of contemporary life and older legend. Marcello’s imaginative tale treats this rustic environment with all the respect it deserves.
Lost and Beautiful demands the viewer let go of reality to enter a world that mixes fact and fable. As with any true fable, the film has something of a moral to its story and this is the mystery that has been puzzling man since the day he crawled out of the primordial slime: The meaning of life.
The Wolfpack
Director: Crystal Moselle
A story unlike any other you will ever come across, ‘Wolfpack’ is a tale of seven siblings who lived a sheltered existence in the confines of their Lower East Side apartment in New York City.
Prohibited from exiting their flat by their father, who had its only key, the siblings developed a love of cinema that helped them live through their extraordinary ordeal of confinement. Years later, in 2010, sporting waist-long hair and dressed in sunglasses reminiscent of Quentin Tarantino’s ‘Reservoir Dogs,’ some of the siblings run into film director Crystal Moselle, who befriended the peculiar-looking boys and eventually cinematized their story. Their forays into the outside world had begun earlier in the same year when one of the family brothers, Mukunda, disobeyed his father’s instructions and wandered off into the real world.
We live in a world that is increasingly interconnected. The manner in which we, as individuals and corporations interact with one another and ultimately with the world around us is such that we are, on the whole, closer and more transparent. Whilst this does increase the volume of information being processed and debated, creating more pressure, friction and ultimately, clashes of interest, there are also numerous positives to behold.
Meet Christian Stadil – one of Denmark’s foremost entrepreneurs that many will recognise from his ownership of sports brand hummel or his appearances on the jury in DR’s “Løvernes Hule” (The Danish version of Dragons’ Den and Shark Tank) – a show that features up and coming entrepreneurs pitching new business ideas, in the hope of captivating the jury and gaining that all important starting capital.
Christian Stadil is the owner and CEO of the Thornico conglomerate, consisting of around 120 operational companies within food, technology, real estate, packaging, financing, sport and fashion, the latter being in the form of hummel. Christian Stadil took over the hummel brand in 1999, which back then was in a poor condition, transforming it into one of the world’s leading fashion and sports brands, finding a unique position in a very competitive market up against giants.
Besides being a business owner, founder and investor (most recently in numerous tech-based upstart companies), he is an author, active lecturer and adjunct professor in creative leadership at the Centre for Business Development and Management at Copenhagen Business School.
Christian’s corporate success is underpinned by a devotion to company karma– “A kind of CSR version 3.0 where we try to, where possible, think more holistically, in a “4x win” where our companies, customers, partners and a cause (in which we believe and find important), all benefit – especially in terms of the climate and the local environment,” he remarks.
And whilst he is not afraid to admit that combining the varied interests of stakeholders is by no means easy, Christian is adamant that one can indeed capitalise on synergies and create win-win situations to everyone’s mutual benefit. Known for doing things differently, Christian Stadil is an impassioned entrepreneur with a particular way of doing things that we all could learn a thing or two from.